Isira is a global peace ambassador
sharing her deep presence and compassion
wherever she goes. Having journeyed
through a life filled with intense
challenges and deeper and deeper degrees
of awakening with Buddhist teachers,
Hindu Masters, Aboriginal Elders, and
Native American wise-men, she now
presents her teaching for all who resonate
with her realisation of the One Truth that
sits within us all. Enza and I met with Isira
on her last visit to Adelaide for the following
interview.
InnerSelf: What does it mean to be enlightened?
Isira: Really it doesn’t mean anything because
actually a lot of the definitions and the stories
about enlightenment are just that. No one can actually
really say “I am enlightened” because if we
say such a thing its just another definition, and
the word is pointing to a pinnacle of experience,
a pinnacle of our potential… we can all reunite
with our most natural self. And really to me that
is just about coming home to simply what is,
now… now, just to be ourself free of our stories
and to be in acceptance about self, freely and absolutely
in each and every moment.
IS: So, what does it mean to live the enlightened
life?
Isira: Essentially, it is a celebration of freedom.
It’s where all of the questions that are
driven by fear and the misunderstanding about
life… our sense of separateness… dissolve. All
of those fears dissolve, all of those probing questions
dissolve; the driving need to do something,
to get somewhere, to achieve something, to find
something… just completely vanishes. And all
that’s left is a symphony of creation in every moment.
It’s a festival of delight, of joy, wonder and
adventure and mystery and knowingness all at the
same time. One of the things I find so exquisite
about this restfulness with life is that simultaneously
there is absolutely nothing to question…
and everything to wonder at, everything to marvel
about, everything to experience, to explore.
It’s like seeing with new eyes in every moment.It’s just a constant vivid freshness and beauty and peace about everything.
IS: So what are you seeing now?
Isira: (laughter) I’m seeing what is! (Laughter)
Can I tell you a little joke: There are two zebras in
a paddock contemplating. The first zebra says,
“Sammy, I don’t know about this beingness of a
zebra. What are we? Are we… are we white with
black stripes or are we black with white stripes?”
They’re having this argument, this debate for
hours upon hours until it suddenly dawns on
them that they should really ask the one who
would know, the Good Lord Above. So they holler
out to the Good Lord Above and before long
there is this great big rumbling and thunder and
lightning and this voice booms down out of the
clouds, “Yes my good creatures, how may I help
you?”
Well, Sammy and Freddy then yell up to the
Good Lord, “Well we’re a little bit puzzled down
here Good Lord. Are we white with black stripes
or are we black with white stripes?” Then there’s
this great big booming resounding response: “You
are what you are” And well, Freddy, he looks at
Sammy and says, “See, I told you we were white
with black stripes.” Now Sammy says to Fred,
“But how did you work that out?” And he said,
“Look, if we were black with white stripes he
would have said, “You is what you is”
(Laughter all around)
So what I’m seeing in this moment, just is what
it is”
IS: So who gets enlightened?
Isira: The real question is: Who isn’t enlightened?
It’s kind of that funny little cosmic joke
that everyone thinks they’re not enlightened but
in fact they are. And one of the beautiful clues
about this is the fact that nothing remains the
same ever… Every single moment is formed constantly
of the ever-present same beingness… the
unbreakable, unchangeable consciousness that is
the backdrop of everything, whilst no thing remains
fixed in any moment. And the very nature
of that play already is the evidence of liberation.
There is absolutely nothing but liberation. And
when we talk about enlightenment we get hooked on to this reference of a ‘before’ and an
‘after’… and a very dualistic window of what
enlightenment is. But there’s nothing but that.
And there’s just this game of duality occurring as
if we’re not already that. So, I suppose from the
context of your question, when you’re looking at
it from the window of duality, as a journey of
that consciousness from a limited view, it is the
sense of humanness in its evolution It is a return
to the state that is not limited or owned by a
story. Everyone… everyone…will remember the
Self that truly IS. It’s impossible not to because
we already are that and we’re just playing a game
like a little shutting of the window shutters for a
while. Because, actually otherwise if the window
was forever open, it’d be bloody boring don’t you
think? (Laughter) If we were realised forever and
ever – full stop – and that’s it…then that would
be the end of the game wouldn’t it? (Laughter)
IS: So, I’ll continue with the questions…
(Laughter) Is enlightenment good karma, hard
work, or grace?
Isira: (Laughter) I can have so much fun with
you. Well, again… those questions come from
perspectives of duality. It’s a comparison of one
reference to another thing and as I commented
before, Enlightenment really is the liberation
from that falsely perceived idea. We finally wake
up again, remember again, “Oh gosh, there was
nothing to resolve.” Again I suppose in the context
of the human evolution, what we call karma
is nothing more than the outplaying of consequences
– cause and effect. And liberation from
the duality of consequences is inevitable because
it is all the one Self, the beginning and the end
forever anyway. Again it’s an inevitable place of
that nature of existence.
Hard work – no. Because the truth is, liberation
is the moment we give up the idea of the
burden, the cross, the hard work. Any moment
sooner than that and it’s not the encounter, it’s
not the realisation. So we simply cannot put it
into the basket of hard work and anyone that
poses that is coming, I feel, from a scholarly and a
conceptual perspective rather than an experiential
perspective.
Grace – Well, grace IS the nature of our liberated
Self. It is the true nature of all existence. If
we’re looking at it as that pinnacle in our human
experience, our human encounter – sure it’s
grace; it’s an exquisite state of grace.
IS: You put a lot of effort into moving into
your awakening, there are many around who say
it has nothing to do with any kind of spiritual
practice, you’ve simply got to wake up, and that’s
all it takes. But there is a place for spiritual practice?
Isira: Sure. And that’s why I commented from
both perspectives. From the essence of what is,
none of it is applicable and from the perspective
of being this human journey, this human encounter,
then yes the outplaying of consequence –
cause and effect, the outplaying of evolution…
the breaking of the seed, the rising up through
the darkness and all of that is catalysed by certain
dynamics. For a seed to crack there have to be
certain energetic influences at play, for the sprout
to come out of the soil there’s the sunshine,
there’s the water. And likewise, in terms of a human
soul stream (I call it a stream because I don’t
see individual souls, I only see streams of the All
Great One) we are that journey of evolution that
is playing out through consequences. And if we
continue to indulge ourself in the limited stories
of the mind, we continue to experience that as
reality. So yes indeed there’s some effort applied
to shifting those indulgent patterns of behaviour.
And considering that humanity has been deeply
shaped in those habits of the ego, then of course
there is great warrant in suggesting it requires discipline.
It requires committed effort rather than hard work. If you want roses then you’re gonna
have to go to the garden shop, then do some gardening,
some planting, and pruning and watering
before you have a bed of roses. You can’t just
walk down to the mall and walk into a fake
flower shop: you’re not gonna get roses.
You see it’s one of those funny little dichotomies
that everything already is… we already are
enlightened, there was never anything to do, just
be. And we are in this play of an assumed forgetting,
an assumed reduced state of consciousness.
It is the blossoming from that reduced state with
the various dynamics involved which we call our
spiritual quest, our spiritual path. And it’s probably
the most significant common denominator
to all human beings. It gives us all an unstoppable
uprising for something greater… for something
expanded, for something liberated, for something
content, for something at peace. It drives every
human being whether they realise it or not. And,
it leads to the experience of bliss.
IS: So what would you say is the biggest obstacle
for moving into the truth of who we are?
Isira: The belief that it is a struggle, that it is
difficult, that it is unreachable. There’s a lot of
talk, there’s a lot of philosophy… tomes and
tomes about enlightenment or the divine state.
And I see that the priority shift required in consciousness
is “insight”. We can think and think
and conceptualise and talk about IT (realisation)
as much as we like but until we experience directly
from within it remains nothing but theory.
In-sight - the state of inner sight - is what gives
us the encounter of knowing that awareness as
ourself rather than something as a God separate
from us or as a Sage or enlightened being who is
higher or holier than us, and therefore
unreachable. And a lot of the teachings still perpetuate
that. They perpetuate this motion of
looking outside, looking to another, even worshipping
another. Not about cultivating and generating
that deep inner state. And funnily enough,
even teachings that are supposedly about the inner
state still have their hooks of dependence on
outer phenomenon. Yet the phenomena of enlightened
teachings is always (if it is true) pointing
to the inner presence. That’s it… where the
experience arises from is that inner knowing
within Self.
IS: So what do we do to turn it around?
Isira: Change the direction of the energy going
into the belief for a start. We can use the same
energy that’s caught up in following actions based
on those limited/ego beliefs. This means we can
simply stop and pause and be still and not entertain
those beliefs and thoughts and be present
with ourself… actually turn the energy around, turn it inward… Then we start to experience inner
conscious presence rather than a mentally
perceived projection about the idea of enlightenment,
the arrival of enlightenment.
IS: Do you give the same technique to everyone,
no matter their level of unfoldment?
Isira: The Presence is certainly a technique
that is applicable to the beginners of the beginners
and the advanced of the advanced. It’s there,
in Presence, that the state of realisation abides.
When we can use these elements and really make
contact with that consciousness in the now, it
doesn’t really matter whether you’re advanced or
not. It’s where you actually become the conscious
experience.
IS: That’s where you sit?
Isira: As in a determined state? Well…
(Laughter) Yes and.... I experience the constant
dynamic of all things in moments that are very,
very centrally localised and in other moments it’s
cosmically expansively present to the All. You
know when I’m sitting here with you to operate
and function there is a deep-seatedness within my
being. I’m not caught on a mental level and I can
of course utilise the mind in its useful manner.
(Laughter) It’s definitely a constant presence of
being because everything is arising from that inner
moment point always.
IS: So when you’re alone without the need to
work with the mind… where are you?
Isira: I still do have many moments where its
much more than the physical local manifestation
and there’s just an endlessness. And you know
even what I’ve written in the book (her new autobiography:
Isira, A Journey of Awakening)
barely even begins to scratch the surface of describing
what it is. It’s impossible to describe
what it is and it’s magnificent.
I have moments where I can encounter simultaneously
a variation of local experiences too.
Like I have moments where I’m aware that we’re
sitting here in this room and I’m aware of being
life on the other side of the planet and what’s
happening on the other side of the planet or in
other dimensions. It’s a really, really fun little
dance that is happening.
IS: You’ve had many teachers from different
traditions – Buddhist, Hindu, Aboriginal Elders,
Native American… how has it helped you by
having this diverse range of teaching?
Isira: It really affirmed so powerfully the One
Truth that is emanating in all things. And that
that truth is manifesting in each of us as a unique
expression to be that. Not to close ourselves into
one way, into one idea, into one expression… but
to be the living expression of everything. And to
see that dance, the power of that consciousness,
the power of that truth… so alive in so many different
cultures, has been a tremendous blessing, a
tremendous gift. I have a vivid memory in particular
of a couple of past life encounters where I
was really witnessing this tendency of the flock
mentality that was trapping the human mind in
its quest for its pinnacle. It was trapping it into
fixed points of an assumed set way of truth, of
liberation. And I had some very vivid moments
where I vowed that I was going to completely
erase those boxes if I came back again… I was
not going to do that one again: I wouldn’t belong
to a tradition, a lineage, and I would share with
humanity the beauty, the dance of diversity and that radiant truth that’s shining
in every single particle of existence.
IS: In your autobiography
you describe a point where you
totally dissolve in the ocean in
deep samadhi. Do you sit in this
now?
Isira: Yes…mmmm…it IS
the true essence that pervades
all.
IS: I was going to ask if you
could describe this… (Laughter)
But maybe we can just sit
and feel it together (Laughter)
Isira: See… see… you are
One too. You read my answer.
We sit in silence for a few
moments… a shared joyous yet
quite humorous energy.
Isira: It can only be felt… I
look forward to the moment,
in Satsang for example, where
people really get it and actually
don’t have to ask all these questions…
just sit and feel (Laughter)
IS: I can’t really communicate
this without words in my
newspaper though…
(Laughter)
Isira: Ok I’ll try…
We sit in stillness and silence
for a little longer then Isira concludes
with the following:
Isira: In a retreat in North
Queensland, we’d come out to
a big Tipi that we’d set up for
the meditation and I was just
drunkenly drowned in the
beauty and the celebration of
the love that is flowing in such
a way. And these tears were just
pouring down my cheeks…
and one of the girls came up to
me at the end of lunch and she
said “Isira, why so many tears?”
And I said, “Well, every moment
for consciousness, this
beingness is making love.
There’s not a moment that isn’t
a making love with everything.
Everything does… the breath… the air… the carpet…
the table here… the little
tea squeezer… the tea bags… a
lovemaking of existence in
and around me in everything,
everywhere, in every moment.
That’s indescribable. And it’s an
ecstasy… you know the sages
were right; it’s orgasmic beyond
the idea of the best Tantra.
And it is Grace… it’s like feeling
the beauty and grace in one
heart, in the one self. There’s
something so exquisite in that
that even humanly it can be almost
unbearably ecstatic… but
it’s not pain, it’s pure, and it’s so
big, its beyond big…
I can’t help but feel that
yearning like a lover, for everyone
to be able to feel this
beauty. So it’s like this incredible
elixir that’s happening all at
once… all these different dimensions
of what love
is…infinite and eternal in the
instant of now.”
IS: Thank you.
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