If you’ve seen the movie “What the Bleep Do we Know!?” you’ll remember Fred Alan Wolf as that wacky Dr. Quantum, challenging us down the rabbit hole. He represents a new breed of scientist that walks the fine line between science and spirituality. His insights into the nature of reality as explored through quantum physics, the shamanic process and ancient doctrines both east and west, has created an opening into possibilities of thought few other scientists are willing to investigate.

Deepak Chopra describes Wolf as “one of the most important pioneers in the field of consciousness,” and his reputation as a lecturer who can make complex concepts clear to the general public reaches to every major city of the world. He is soon to visit Australia on a five city lecture tour to present a 3 hour Q&A program exploring the spiritual universe and the nature of the soul. We chatted with Dr Wolf about some of his fascinating ideas, and came away with much to think about.

InnerSelf: In “What the Bleep Do we Know!?” you challenge the viewer with the question, “How far down the rabbit hole are you willing to go?” I’d like to turn that around and ask you “How far have you gone?”

Fred Alan Wolf: Well, I’ve gone reasonably far in my quest for answers and meaningful inquiry into what this thing we call life is all about. It’s taken me all over the place…I’ve firewalked over hot coals…I’ve spent time undergoing initiation under shamanic traditions ranging from Mexico to the south of England with the Druids, through to the jungles of Peru and also the Native Americans… I have been involved with mystics of various kinds, studying spiritual traditions of Kabbalah to Indian philosophy. And I’ve studied physics vehemently. So, besides my life’s experience which has been full…I’d say I’ve gone reasonably far.

IS: Were you always interested in metaphysical as well scientific enquiry?

Fred Alan Wolf: I was just curious about a lot of things, I’ve always been that way. Even as a kid my teachers kept telling me to “Please stop asking so many questions,” because I was always asking “What about this? What about that?” It’s just part of my nature, and that’s what led me into Theoretical Physics. It wasn’t so much that I was trying to be a physicist, it’s that in Physics I found things of such curiosity and such interest…to me what was really interesting is “What’s going on here?” and “How is the universe created?” “Why is there a universe after all?” “What’s happening?” And these are the kinds of questions which lead naturally into understanding the physical world, but [it’s] also impossible to leave out mind and consciousness. And that’s what got me into it.

IS: But there are probably many physicists and scientists who didn’t venture down the same road, approaching the spiritual as you did?

Fred Alan Wolf: I don’t know why physicists don’t. Anybody who’s interested in physics, who gets excited about the ideas of physics and how the universe works, I would think would naturally tend to be interested in the same things I’m interested in. It astonishes me when people tell me they’re not. I really don’t understand that.
I can understand a certain mentality. I’ve studied courses in engineering, where you learn how to construct something and it fits within a certain framework, and you have to be ingenious in design and that sort of thing…and maybe a lot of people who get into physics get intrigued with the engineering aspect of it and not into the metaphysical. They want to really build something…see it work…see it stand. Watch that bridge stand or watch that particle accelerator work. They want to know that something is working according to some plan that they have. And they’re not interested in the deeper questions.
What I was more interested in was why things are the way that they are. And I began to see that there were certain discoveries that physicists who thought deeply about this stuff had made, that showed there was an underlying pattern to everything, that I felt was fascinating.

IS: I guess you were heading more towards the creator rather than the created?

Fred Alan Wolf: Well, you could put it that way.

IS: So, what is your experience or realisation of the Unity Consciousness?

Fred Alan Wolf: Well, nobody can experience unity. Everybody talks about it as if it was something to be experienced but unity is impossible because when you’re in unity there’s no separation, there’s no distinction, there’s no way to tell one thing from another…so how can you say “I am experiencing unity”? This implies a separation of you from the unity that you had to go into to experience.
So you see unity is impossible. Unity is very mysterious. It’s an impossible thing. It’s like, “How did the universe get created?” It got created in unity…it got created from nothing. “Well, what do you mean nothing, you mean it just got created in empty space?” No. Not even space was there. So “the universe got created in…” even that language is fraught with misunderstanding because there was nothing that it could be in, because it was everything that was…do you see what I’m getting at?
When you start talking about these things you need to make models to talk about them, and all I attempt to do in my work and my teaching is to say, “Look guys, we really don’t understand this stuff in any way that’s humanly possible to understand. All I can do is point to it and see that it’s truly a mystery and live in it, enjoy it, experience it as something to hold within you, rather than something you have to explain. Because once you’ve explained something and understood it, it becomes dead.

IS: How true is it that we actually create the world we live in with our thinking?

Fred Alan Wolf: It’s true and it’s not true. And it’s the “not” part that I think needs to be clarified because a lot of people think “All I’ve gotta do is sit back on my butt and wish, and there is the beautiful babe coming into my life, and I’m gonna have a wonderful time…All that money’s gonna pour in…I’ve just gotta think good things and I’ll be rich and famous…”
It just doesn’t work that way. And that’s so very misleading. In the movie “What the Bleep…” it tends to give people a false picture, if that’s how they think. That is the purpose of the mind in the matter world – that you have the ability to imagine and to create new situations for yourself that you may have thought were impossible but in order to really make them manifest you’ve got to get out there, get off your butt and do something!

IS: So how much can we really affect change in our lives? Is it that anything is truly possible if we do change our thinking, so long as it’s followed up with the necessary work?

Fred Alan Wolf: It is always possible to change anything by your thinking, for the good or for the bad. Certainly when it comes to your own personal life it’s critical. Your life is governed by what you think. When it comes to changing say a culture, or a city or your family, it’s more difficult. You can’t just change other people by wishing them to change. (Laughter)
But when it comes to yourself, yes there’s great power within the self and that’s why all the great spiritual teachers tell you, if you want to change the world – first change yourself.

IS: I’m curious. If thought has such immense power, what is it?

Fred Alan Wolf: The best I can come up with is that there’s a realm of…you might even call it Alchemy…there’s no word to describe it, it’s a subjective realm. [In this realm] there are four categories. And once you understand that and learn to see what you do in terms of these categories, you can begin to see how to transform from one to the other. And these four things are very simple. One is our “Thinking”, we all can think. Animals even think, but human beings are certainly capable of doing what is called thinking. There’s another called “Feeling”. We all can feel, and feeling is not the same thing as another one called “Sensing”. Sensing is what you normally do when you say, “I can see the light” or “I can hear the sound” or “Smell the rose” or “I feel your hand on my leg.” That’s sensing. You may get feeling as a result of what it is you’re sensing. You smell the rose and you get a feeling of nostalgia, or a feeling of romance, or a feeling of disgust…whatever roses may convey to you through memory. And there’s also a fourth function that we all use and couldn’t survive without, it’s called “Intuiting”.
Intuiting, Sensing, Feeling and Thinking are the four basic functions of the mind. And they operate according to what appears to be – this is my own work, what I call Alchemy – appropriates in complimentary ways. And this is akin to what I think was discovered by Carl Jung when he talked about the so-called Personality Functions.

IS: More specifically, what about Questions? These are interesting types of thoughts that lead us to places. What are questions?

Fred Alan Wolf: A question is an opening of a door into a realm of the unknown. So questions are extremely vital, important and illuminating. The question is far more important than the answer. The answer is closed doors and the questions open them. When you have questions, it indicates that your mind is awakening. When you start getting answers it indicates that you’re closing your mind. Now it’s not bad to close your mind. 2x2=4. My mind is closed about that and that’s okay…(Laughter). Unless somebody comes up and says, “Well, wait a minute, what about two of this and two of that?” Oh, that’s a different question. Maybe two of this and two of that isn’t four. Maybe there are more than four. Maybe you might take two apples and add two apples to it, crush them together and make apple sauce and I don’t have four of anything!

IS: Another cluster of thought is Belief. What’s your thought on Belief?

Fred Alan Wolf: Belief is an unquestioned attitude which develops either when the mind is too tired to question or where fear has been put into place to keep one from questioning. I tend to try to tell people not to believe anything. But to understand when you have a belief what it really is. And that you can always question anything. There’s nothing in the realm of the universe and even if God Almighty says, you know… it’s okay to question, even me. (Laughter)

IS: I’ve come to the last of my questions. So, is there an end or a bottom to the rabbit hole?

Fred Alan Wolf: I look at the rabbit hole as opening into alternate realties as you scramble through from one to the other. You never really get to any end because the universe is unending. So the rabbit hole is going to keep on going. What is interesting is to enjoy the trip. Like Alice who went down the rabbit hole, just enjoy the journey.
It never ends…You might say it ends with your death but from what I understand that’s just not the end of the road at all.

Fred Alan Wolf is the author of ten books including Space, Time and Beyond, and his latest Matter into Feeling. He is touring Australia presenting a series of lectures titled The Spiritual Universe.
The Adelaide lecture will be held on Wednesday November 23, at Elder Hall,
bookings at BASS 131 248.
Dr Fred Alan Wolf's web site: www.fredalanwolf.com